Toad World® Forums

Copy Model from Trial to Beta



i am new to data/databases/modeling/software/IT and i have downloaded a trial version to learn all the above. I am creating a very simple logical model but it has grown to around 40 entities and because i have exceeded the 25 entity maximum i cannot save the model. i have just left my computer constantly running with TDM.

when the new beta is released, will i be able to just copy (i mean select all > copy) and past the entire thing into the beta?

also, will the program close after the 15 days and i lose all my work?



Not to sound harsh - but you use the word “work” and not trial or experimentation. So if you’re using the product to do actual real work - then pony up the meager fee :slight_smile:



when i say work, i mean the product of me expending energy and time on the model. if you look at the picture, im sure you can figure out how little i know.

less than a week ago, i knew absolutely nothing about data or databases or modelling and i have never worked in it or attended any courses. i taught myself programming when i was 8 years old (machine code and assembly on an Acorn Atom) but i lost my interest soon after and i dont even remember what i knew back then.

i think you are implying that i will have somehow make some money from this model. this is so far from the truth to make me laugh. i only started learning this stuff because here in the UK it is near impossible for someone like me to get a job. i saw a job posting for someone to “clean computer screens” by europe’s largest IT company which has its headquarters near to where i am iving. i went everyday to their offices for a week asking for a trial but got they wouldnt give me any job, even when i said i would work free for a week. 2 weeks ago, i went to another company to apy for a toilet cleaner job and they said “send your CV”.

i have a hard enough time paying for food, never mind softwre, and i dont think i am doing anything wrong by using the trial which is offered by Toad. i dont know what the terms of the beta trial is, but i dont think i would be breaking any of them.

if you think i am in any way doing something wrong legally or morally, please say so because at the moment i dont thin k i am.

i have not been misleading or dishonest in any way.



sorry i forgot to attach a picture of my model. i cant send a file because i have exceeded the maximum 25 entities.


sorry, i just realised you are actually part of Toad Software, so i would like to comment further.

if, for whatever reason, you feel that my participation in this forum is unhelpful, unwelcome, undesirable or contrary to any rules, please let me know.

i have only posted here with the assumption that someone in my position is allowed to participate in discussions. I am not in any position to purchase any software from you, but I have noticed and reported bugs in your program and i expect my actions will benefit you; i think (maybe i am yet again wrong) it is better someone like me find bugs than some IT boss who might decide against spending thousands of dollars buying your products.

thanks again


We get a lot of people who simply want to use the trial or beta to perform their actual jobs (and not do educational learning as you seem to be doing). Those cheapskates want to have extended trials or more than 25 entities - because they are doing real work. You are not. There is an old Toad Data Modeler version 2.5 freeware that might be your best bet - but I don’t know where if anywhere that download is available anymore.

PS - My reply seems to have struck a nerve with you. Sorry. But we get so many cheapskates like I mentioned before, that we are have had to scale back (you know what that means) - and may face more of it. I guess we’re just trying to inform those people who should be paying (not you) that we are not open source, not freeware, and product will not proceed if those who should pay do not. The economy hurts everyone - including software vendors. No one is happy these days.


As you will see in my reply that probably passed your on the wires, you are welcome to try the software and to partipcate in the community - that’s the very definition of community. But we get far too many people who unlike you just want free software for nothing - and they whine about trial limits and such. You don’t fall into that - and that’s what my prior reply was about. Your first message just raised the red flags as MAYBE being one of those cheapskates. But you are not - and I did recommend our prior (older) freeware that is great for education needs abd as far as I know has no limits that would interfere with educational investigation …


thanks for your clarification and your time.


Was looking over your model - and a few comments:

I see lots of repeating attributes (columns). If you populate all the entities first and then connect things up with relationships, you’re making more work for yourself. Let me explain. When you draw a relationship between two entities, TDM will migrate over the PK attribute into the target. So if you already have it there now you have two. Then you’ll have to manually edit the relationship and say that the new FK should point to the prior existing column - and thus cause the migrated one to go away. This is just far too much work to cause yourself. It’s not a flaw with TDM - it’s the way you should approach modeling. You don’t want to “guess” at attributes and columns. You should design entities and then relate them as you go - and see where the chips fall. You’ll end up with a much more relationally correct model - and create less busy work for yourself.


thanks for the advice!

actually this is where i had been struggling with TDM. when i drew non-identifying relationship lines, i thought TDM would fill in the foreign keys, but according to MigrationofKeys.pdf this seems to only happen after conversion from logical model to physical model.

the only problem i see is that if i dont actually somehow show all attributes and PKs in the logical model, i dont understand how i will effectively normalise the model?

thanks a lot for your time!



We’re happy you joined our community. We appreciate any feedback on TDM. You can ask any questions here and we hope you also find some helpful information here.

Regarding using the trial version and its limitation, as I’ve already written in another thread, please contact the Sales team at: and ask for an override key for full modeling functionality and for another trial period. Thanks.

To the problem of keys in LER model:
Foreign keys are not displayed in Logical Model. Logical model shows a model only from the logical point of view. Foreign keys are a thing of physical modeling.
There are significant differences between LER and PER models, e.g. inheritances in LER model when migration of keys simply cannot be displayed.

Please read e.g. discussion at:

If you have any questions, please write us back. Thanks.

Have a nice day and good luck while searching for a job!


Vladka + TDM Team


hi Vladka

thanks again for the information. i totally understand that the keys concept does not exist in the logical model as i have noted in another post.

thank you also for suggesting again that i request a trial extension from sales. i do not wish to ask for an extension because i would be misleading you if i implied i have any intention of purchasing your software any time soon. i am only a beginning student and only using your software for educational purposes.

i have tried to make patently clear that i do not expect support of any kind and i have used this forum in the spirit of a community. i could not possibly feel aggrieved even if none of my questions were responded to. i appreciate Toad is not open-source or freeware and i do not expect quest’s time or resources to be wasted helping someone who does not add to your revenue in any way.

thanks again