Toad World® Forums

Error Access- Denied when closing a Version Controlled File


#1

Hi

I have installed the latest beta of TDM, I have followed the instruction from the release note to do the installation.

“With the change of the installation program, you have to uninstall the previous TDM 3 BETA version first. Then you can install the latest Beta version”

After I un-installed the previous beta version, I have removed the folder which sit under My Document as well. When I load up TDM again, it said it could not find the file (which I created with previous TDM, have been removed by me, which i think it is ok. as I have deleted the old folder)

After I created a new Model, I have saved it and then put it to source control manager, I have added more entities on this model. When I close the model, it come up with an Error(Access is Denied). Please find the attachment about the error message.

I am able to save the changes, only if I use the Version Control Manager to check in the file.

Could you give me some information, about how could I solve this problem.

Many thanks

Chi
LDAP_admin.doc (26.5 KB)


#2

Hello Chi,

After I created a new Model, I have saved it and then put it to source control manager, I have added more entities on this model. When I close the model, it come up with an Error(Access is Denied). Please find the attachment about the error message. I am able to save the changes, only if I use the Version Control Manager to check in the file.

Here I’m with an explanation + example.
VM - Version Manager
AW - Application Window
AV - Application View

  1. I create a new model and put it to VM. ->
  • A new version 1.0 will be created automatically in VM.
  • The version is checked out in the AW and available in the AV.
  • The version is locked in VM as it is checked out.
  1. I add another entity to the version. Now I have two options:
    a] to save the change and close the version: I click the Check In button on the toolbar, select how I want to save it (make revision 1.1) and select the ‘Finish work on model’ checkbox.
    b] to save the change and leave the version opened in AW: I click the Check In button on the toolbar, select how I want to save it (make revision 1.1) and leave the ‘Finish work on model’ checkbox clear.

I select option b] -> see the changes:

  • New revision has been created in VM. It is locked as it is opened in AW.
  • See the new revision 1.1 in AV.
  1. Similarly, I create another revision 1.2 and select ‘Finish work on model’ as I finish working with the versions/revisions.

See the screenshot 1 of the VM.

Important info:

  • The versions, revisions are saved as .txv files. There files are mostly read-only, which means you cannot rewrite them. Why? see the example below:

Let’s suppose you’d like to go back to version 1.0 and edit it. So, you check out, make changes and press Check In. See the screenshot 2. - However, you can see: the “Overwrite Actual Version” option is not available. You may wonder why…

  • The reason is that if you changed version 1.0, it wouldn’t be predecessor of versions 1.1 and 1.2. The versions wouldn’t be derived from 1.0, the information wouldn’t be correct. The behaviour of TDM 3 is correct, you shouldn’t be able to do it.

So, you’ve possibly wanted to change version 1.0. trying to edit the .txv file. (Edited and tried to save the changes outside of the VM.) However, TDM doesn’t allow you to do it - it is not possible to save changes to a file that is read-only (and is read-only for particular reason). In this case, the error you report occurs.

If you have any questions, please write us back.

Regards,

Vladka & TDM Team
vm_1.png


#3

Hello Chi,

After I created a new Model, I have saved it and then put it to source control manager, I have added more entities on this model. When I close the model, it come up with an Error(Access is Denied). Please find the attachment about the error message. I am able to save the changes, only if I use the Version Control Manager to check in the file.

Here I’m with an explanation + example.
VM - Version Manager
AW - Application Window
AV - Application View

  1. I create a new model and put it to VM. ->
  • A new version 1.0 will be created automatically in VM.
  • The version is checked out in the AW and available in the AV.
  • The version is locked in VM as it is checked out.
  1. I add another entity to the version. Now I have two options:
    a] to save the change and close the version: I click the Check In button on the toolbar, select how I want to save it (make revision 1.1) and select the ‘Finish work on model’ checkbox.
    b] to save the change and leave the version opened in AW: I click the Check In button on the toolbar, select how I want to save it (make revision 1.1) and leave the ‘Finish work on model’ checkbox clear.

I select option b] -> see the changes:

  • New revision has been created in VM. It is locked as it is opened in AW.
  • See the new revision 1.1 in AV.
  1. Similarly, I create another revision 1.2 and select ‘Finish work on model’ as I finish working with the versions/revisions.

See the screenshot 1 of the VM.

Important info:

  • The versions, revisions are saved as .txv files. There files are mostly read-only, which means you cannot rewrite them. Why? see the example below:

Let’s suppose you’d like to go back to version 1.0 and edit it. So, you check out, make changes and press Check In. See the screenshot 2. - However, you can see: the “Overwrite Actual Version” option is not available. You may wonder why…

  • The reason is that if you changed version 1.0, it wouldn’t be predecessor of versions 1.1 and 1.2. The versions wouldn’t be derived from 1.0, the information wouldn’t be correct. The behaviour of TDM 3 is correct, you shouldn’t be able to do it.

So, you’ve possibly wanted to change version 1.0. trying to edit the .txv file. (Edited and tried to save the changes outside of the VM.) However, TDM doesn’t allow you to do it - it is not possible to save changes to a file that is read-only (and is read-only for particular reason). In this case, the error you report occurs.

If you have any questions, please write us back.

Regards,

Vladka & TDM Team
vm_2.png


#4

Hi

Thanks for your explanation.

I understand now, but what if i want to save what I have changed tempeory? In case if the changes I made is not right I need to load the previous checked in file and work on it again? In that case i will create a lot of txv file = (.

I would prefer Save the changes I made whenever I want to work on anything else. and “CheckIn” then file whenever I feel confident about what I have done is correct. Therefore it will not create a lot of different version of the model, and use up a lot of HDD space for each version of the model we put into Version control manager, in which we may not want.

I would like to have A function for “Save” and “Check In” and the file should only be locked if we want to check in the file rather than save it. E.g. Save function would overwritten the existing file (model) which is on the HDD rather than the file on Version Control Manger.

Please let me know if you want me to explain more.

Many thanks

Chi


#5

Hello Chi,

Thanks for your opinion. We’ve been discussing this issue in our team.
As it seems, immediate solution is not available. We have to think it over carefully. The truth is that when you can save a version, you need to open it too. The version will have to be in the checked out state for some time etc… In any case, there are a lot of issues that we need to consider.

At the moment, the Save option is available in the form of Check In. If you like to save the changes frequently, simply click the Check In button and select “Overwrite Actual Version” with cleared “Finish Work on Model” checkbox.

However, from your response, it seems our solution doesn’t meet your needs. Could you please write us what is the biggest advantage of the Save option (that the current Check In cannot offer to you)?

Thanks very much.

Note: This is an open discussion. All ideas and opinions are appreciated.

Thanks!

Vladka


#6

Hi

In my point of view, Save function would save/overwritten the existing the model for temp changing use. I would love to “check in” the model, when
At the moment, whenever I check in the model, mean it check an extra copy of the model. ( i guess it is more or less the similar size of the existing model) I understand that I could check in and overwritten the existing model to archeive the similar feature that I want to use in Save function, whenever I dun want the current version, I could just check out the older version and check in again to made a new version.

I think Save function could reduce the hassle from that, Save function do not really need to checkout the model and check back in that often, i think the mechanism of Save and Check In is different.

“You can create a new version/revision with the right data. (And remove the unnecessary version/revision then.)”

Yeah, I think that’s could resolve the problem, it cause a bit inconvenient, as you need to clear up the model (remove some of the version, when you think they are not useful), why don’t we just “check in” the useful model, and leave any temp work which has been done to the current saved version?

Please let me know if you want me to explain more, I understand that is an open discussion, i think the problem I got could be not get used to Overwrite the current version.

Many thanks

Chi

Save button --> would be very useful to user like me, would love to save every step I made changes of the model E.g. after changing some properties of the model.
If I need to use the Check In feature, that would create quite a lot the version, On the other hand, If I Overwritten Actual Version, which could cause problem as I am not able to undo check out. And also i find it is a bit inconvenient about the need of clicking on the Check In button and Click Ok to overwritten Actual Version, which perform the similar function as Save button, but Overwritten Actual Version would be a bit danger than just Save button, as Overwritten the actual Version mean, the Original Version we are working on will be replaced that the version we going to Check IN.

Please let me know if you want me to explain more.

Many thanks

Chi

Message was edited by: Chi

And also, When you click on the Top right cross button to close the application and a dialog box pop up to ask if you would like to save it, After I clicked “OK” and error message appear, “Error, Access Denied” I think it would be better to return back to Toad Data Modeler rather than exit the program without save/check in as the user may find it is a convenient way to save the existing file by clicking on the cross button with the save/check in option. but in this case, it just throw error and exist the program without to have a second chance to ask if the user want to save it or not.

In your case(about Version Manager), I think this screen would be better to ask if you want to “Check In” the file before you exit, the program. (I mean if it detected it is a version controled model, it would as the user to check in, otherwise, it would ask the user to save it)

I hope it could resolve the problem a bit.

Please let me know if you want me to explain more.

Many thanks

Chi

Message was edited by: Chi


#7

Hello Chi,

Thanks very much for your remarks. Here I’m with some notes on the current VM and an example.
On the example, I’ll try to show how the current version of VM works taking into account your remarks. I believe it will help us to see where the problem is and better understand what exactly should be improved, enhanced and added.

Thanks in advance for reading this quite long post!


Some introduction first

In current version of VM:

  • Save option is included in the Check In operation. Advantages of this behaviour:

    • One option for two operations. You don’t have to decide between two buttons of the same or similar function (will be explained in the example).
    • A backup on the server is created automatically.
  • Branch sorting - You can see clearly what version/revision has been derived from which. It allows you to make “milestone” versions, create new versions and revisions from the milestone, see the whole branch, return to the milestone etc.


Example

  1. I create a new PER model with 4 entities and add it to Version Manager - version 1.0 is created. This version is a “milestone” version.
    I know I’ll be making a lot of changes in this version, and assume will make some mistakes or wrong steps. So, I add attributes to Entity1 and Check In this version.

  2. I check in the version and save it to 1.1.
    VM description now:
    1.0 (As I’ve mentioned, v. 1.0 is a “milestone” version.)
    1.1 (left opened in AW and listed in AV).

  3. I continue working with v. 1.1. I edit attributes of Entity1.
    I’m used to saving changes often - just for sure. So, I simply click Check In - Overwrite current version, and press OK (only two clicks with your mouse). And keep modeling…

  4. I add attributes to Entity2. (Click Edit | Undo whenever I need.) Finally, I press Check In - Overwrite current version, continue modeling again…

  5. I find I made a mistake in Entity1. Undo is not available right after the check in, however, I can edit the entity, correct the mistake and press Check In - Overwrite current version. And continue modeling…

Notes:

  • I’m still working with version 1.1. No other versions/revisions are created.
  • Check In/Save takes two mouse clicks.
  • While checking in, backup on the server is created automatically.
  • I can undo steps before I check in. I can also correct mistakes and rewrite version after Check in.
  1. Now I look at the properties of Entities1 and 2 and say: “Fine. They are correct.” Before I start other significant changes in the model, I decide to create this version 1.1 another milestone version. So,…
  2. I start editing Entity3, click Check In and save it to version 1.2 (still left the version opened in AW.)
  3. I make changes in version 1.2, create objects, correct mistakes… still saving the changes to the same version. - Until I say to myself again: “OK, a lot has been made. I better save them and create another milestone version.”

I make the milestone versions when I feel some significant changes have been made in the model, or when a lot of things have been done.

If I find I went to completely wrong directions in my modeling (e.g. since version 1.1), I can go back to the milestone version (version 1.0) and start a new branch.

Summary:

  • You can save every step you make and overwrite the versions.
  • As you’re sure it’s correct, you can “freeze” the version (- create the milestone version) and start developing another version. -> You don’t have to have more and more useless versions/revisions in the VM.
  • You can Undo until you press Check In. However, you can also correct the mistake and overwrite the version. If you find you’ve made too wrong steps, you can go back to the milestone version and start a new branch.
  • In TDM3, the version, revisions are sorted clearly so you see what was made from what. (There’s not a simple list with version numbers only.) So, you can easily find the appropriate milestone version when you need.

Quick Comparison

TDM3 (integration of VM for models) versus External Version Control tool

TDM3:

  1. Version 1.0 has been considered to be a milestone version: Check In - the version can remain opened for another edit.
  2. Edit.
  3. Check In to version 1.1.

External Version Control tool:

  1. Version 1.0 has been considered to be a milestone version: Check In. The model is closed.
  2. Check out 1.0. + Open
  3. Edit
  4. Check In to version 1.1.

Well, this is, I hope, all important we’ve wanted to mention. Again, this is a discussion. I’ve described a sample of how it might work in current VM. However, your practice and your job requirements can be totally different. Please feel free to share them with us.

If you find anything unclear, if you have any remarks, comments or questions, please write us. We’re open to discuss the VM improvements and changes. Thanks.

Regards,

Vladka + Fero


#8

Hi

Then I think it would be better to ask if you want to “Check In” the file before youexit, the program. At the moment after you have used the CHECK IN function, whenever you close Toad, if you ask if you want to save the model …etc. If you just press save, it would just return access denied and close Toad. Nothing will have save or check in at this point, so you will lose the work that you have done, if you think when you click on the cross button, and the pop up dialog will provide facility for your to save/ check in your model… (in this case, it does not work)

(I mean if it detected it is a version controlledmodel, it would as the user to check in, otherwise, it would ask theuser to save it)

Many thanks

Chi


#9

Hello Chi,

Yes, I’m sorry I’ve forgotten to reply to your last two paragraphs in your previous post.

When you click on the Top right cross button to close the application and a dialog box pop up to ask if you would like to save it, After I clicked “OK” and error message appear, “Error, Access Denied” I think it would be better to return back to Toad Data Modeler rather than exit the program without save/check in as the user may find it is a convenient way to save the existing file by clicking on the cross button with the save/check in option. but in this case, it just throw error and exist the program without to have a second chance to ask if the user want to save it or not.

Unfortunately, I’ve failed to simulate the problem in the way you describe it. Even if I have some versions open (one version checked in, one before the check in), and I click the right cross button to close the application, confirm OK to save them, no error appears.
As explained earlier, it seems you’re trying to save changes to a file that is read-only. - Therefore the Access Denied appears.

In any case, it can’t be that the error appears, you must click it and then the application closes without any chance to save other work. We will definitely deal with this issue. - CR # 34 461.

I think this screen would be better to ask if you want to “Check In” the file before you exit, the program.

Yes, you’re right. We’ve already discussed it in another thread on the Version Manager. When you click x to close the application, first you will be asked to check in all opened versions of VM. Then you will be asked to save your models.
This request has already been entered under # 33 437.

Chi, thanks for your great co-operation!

Regards,

Vladka


#10

Hi
Unfortunately, I’ve failed to simulate the problem in the way youdescribe it. Even if I have some versions open (one version checked in,one before the check in), and I click the right cross button to closethe application, confirm OK to save them, no error appears.

Let me describe what I have done, I have created a now physical model, then renamed the name from “Application View”. I have checked in an empty work space. Then I create an Entity and enter the fields for this entity, then I check In again and overwrite the Actual version. Then I add anther entity again, and do the same. (Check IN), then I create an relationship for them and then click the cross button, (I did not check in the last modification, I just use the cross button instead, then the error come up when the dialog box come up and I clicked “Save”.

I hope this could help you simulate the problem I had.

Many thanks

Chi


#11

Hello Chi,

Thanks very much for the detailed description.

We’ve followed exactly the steps you took, and got the error.
We have found out that the file sets to read-only state, which is wrong. It’s a bug (CR # 34 438), and will be corrected in next Beta release.

Temporary solution:
For now, I’m afraid, we need to ask you to Check In before you close the application.
(Check In + close the version for newly created files in VM. - This is your example.)

Please try to do the following (continue in your work):

  1. Open TDM3 Beta again. I suppose the version is still in the AW. The change that you made after the last Check In is not available (relationship is missing). Please Check In the version now and select Don’t Save or Overwrite + enable the option to close the version.
  2. Check Out this version again and make a quick change (add relationship). Do not Check In.
  3. Click x to close TDM, confirm OK to save the change.
    What is the result?

The application should close properly. When you open it, you will see the change has been saved.

(I’ve tested several other models that already exist in VM and was able to close the application without getting the error. - So, this info might help you for now a little.)

It seems we need to polish the new option on the Check Out without previous closing of version… We will do many testings and will fix it for next Beta release.

Chi, let us apologize for the inconveniences and thanks for your patience.

Have a nice day.

Regards,

Vladka & TDM Team