Disappointed big time with Toad for Sql server

costab · September 17, 2010, 1:06pm

I used Toad for Oracle in the past and I thought Toad for SQL Server has the same kind of quality hence I bought a license. Big disappointment!

Right now I cannot recommend it to anybody. For a 700$ tool I cannot event set the editor background color to black. It is a bloated piece of software, slow, it eats up a lot of memory, resizing controls doesn’t even work for object details scripts. Executing the statement at cursor executes ALL the statements in the editor. In Toad for Oracle I could generate the sql statements that generated data differences between tables. It is not possible to do it in Toad for SQL Server.

I don’t usually like to be negative, but not being able to do simple things I was able to do in toad for oracle is very frustrating.

Can I get my money back after 1.5 months?

IgorM · September 17, 2010, 2:26pm

Toad for SQL Server is part of a family of .NET-based products while Toad for
Oracle is native application. That is why I think it’s not quite correct
to compare both in regards of speed and system resources consuming.

As for ToadSS executing all statements in the batch as opposed to a single one
– SQL Server does not define the obligatory marking for the end of a
statement. I’m not an Oracle expert but it seems that Oracle does.

Having said that, lets list your complaints:

costab · September 19, 2010, 3:50am

First, let me start by saying I’ve been a faithful user of Toad for Oracle. Second, all tools are more less the same and little things can make a difference (as long as the bigger things work as the should).

Here is my list:

I cannot change the editor background color to black. I like the dark background. This is basic functionality that any decent editor should have, and in this day and age toad for sql server should have it as well.
At least in version 5.0.444, Toad for SQL server uses way more memory for just a few connections/editors open. The memory usage sky rocketed to over400mb!
Searching options in the Options dialog is extremely slow. It is faster in subsequent searches but as soon as you close the dialog and then come back it is slow again.
Executing the statement the cursor is on doesn’t work in the same way it works in Toad for Oracle. It executes all the statements in the editor which is not what it should be. Now, in Toad for Oracle it will figure out the statement you’re on by finding the first blank line before the line with the cursor and the next blank line, and then executing the text in between the blank lines. You don’t need to know any delimiter.
In SQL Server management studio I can map a key to execute a stored procedure and pass the selected text as parameter. I cannot do that in Toad
Overall, Toad for Sql server is much slower than Toad for Oracle. Changing between tabs takes a few good seconds (at least 5) while in Toad for Oracle is instantaneous. Opening a new editor window takes forever. When you tell me that it is not quite correct to compare Toad for Oracle with Toad for SQL server what I can tell you is that you bet it is correct. I don’t care what technology you use. I am a client and I want the best experience, even more so given the fact that your company sells another product which defined the standard for quality. Before you started the implementation of Toad for SQL server you should have done your homework and see if using .net would lead to a good and performant product. Now we see the result of this decision.
There are control resizing issues in the Object Details section - the grids are not resized properly when you resize the section, and it is annoying because I often have to check table structures but the grids the columns are in do not extend to fill in all the available space. Same for stored procedures. If I navigate to the script tab and then resize the Object Details section by dragging the splitter the Script window doesn’t fill in the all the space, it just stays at the same size.
Generating ddl sql scripts is excruciatingly slow. The database I am working on has over 500 tables. I gave up using the Toad generator
The schema compare doesn’t have the same options as in Toad for SQL server. I attempted to compare two tables and turn off the constraints comparison but there is no way to do it. When you compare data, there is no way to get the sql that is used to compare the data.
I had this weird connection that takes 30s from the moment I click the connect until toad loads the object explorer. SQL Management studio doesn’t have any trouble.

There are things that I like about Toad for SQL Server:

I like that I can filter objects in the objects explorer
I like that I can select a stored procedure name and then I can display the procedure details in the object details section using the context menus. I wish CTRL+Click would do the same

There are other things that I like but overall, I am disappointed and for the money I paid I feel I was ripped off. Yes, you offer a trial version, that’s right, but you know, sometimes it takes you longer to discover things. It is also disappointing because you’d expect that there is communication between the two teams and one team would learn one thing or two from the other team (unless Toad for Sql server was a product developed from an acquired company)

avergison · September 19, 2010, 3:17pm

I can just talk about speed, not functionality (using 5.0.1.554). Let me list my own findings here:

At least in version 5.0.444, Toad for SQL server uses way more memory for just a few connections/editors open. The memory usage sky rocketed to over400mb! <

On a modern pc 400 Mb is not a big deal anymore. The garbage collector often leaves old stuff in memory for a long time. It should not be harmful.

Searching options in the Options dialog is extremely slow. It is faster in subsequent searches but as soon as you close the dialog and then come back it is slow again. <

Each first search takes about 3 seconds.

Overall, Toad for Sql server is much slower than Toad for Oracle. Changing between tabs takes a few good seconds (at least 5) while in Toad for Oracle is instantaneous. Opening a new editor window takes forever. When you tell me that it is not quite correct to compare Toad for Oracle with Toad for SQL server what I can tell you is that you bet it is correct. I don't care what technology you use. I am a client and I want the best experience, even more so given the fact that your company sells another product which defined the standard for quality. Before you started the implementation of Toad for SQL server you should have done your homework and see if using .net would lead to a good and performant product. Now we see the result of this decision. <

I can open two editors per second. Switching between tabs is immediate.

Generating ddl sql scripts is excruciatingly slow. The database I am working on has over 500 tables. I gave up using the Toad generator <

Generating ddl script for AdventureWorks (128 tables) took less than 60 seconds CPU time. Elapsed time was much more but I'm accessing a database over a slow VPN line.

I had this weird connection that takes 30s from the moment I click the connect until toad loads the object explorer. SQL Management studio doesn't have any trouble. <

Opening my above slow VPN database takes ten seconds until the populated browser appears.

There are differences with Toad for Oracle indeed, but on a modern machine .NET performs reasonably well. Not only CPU speed counts, also memory and bus architecture improve year by year. When I read about your disappointing experience then I get the impression that your machine has not enough RAM, or has an old architecture, perhaps with a combination of other constraining factors. You didn't tell about the hardware you're using. I admit my above "timings" are on an i7 with lots of RAM, but speed on a modern two-core machine are comparable.
Can you tell me about your hardware?

Thanks,
Andre

Guest · September 19, 2010, 3:38pm

Then!!! We all have to buy new computers to RUN TOAD for SQL Server.

Atte :
Remigio Zeballos Portugal
remi1@hotmail.com

hfreeman · September 19, 2010, 7:15pm

To Andre Vergison

and

Remigio Zeballos

Yes sir you are correct Sir… YOU NEED a good computer for Toad-SS. I have been
quite successful with Toad-SS on Window Vista-64 and the Windows 7-64
professional and ultimate with 4gb and 8gb respectfully. I personally believe
anyone running 32 bit Windows XP, needs to have their head examined. To many
issue with the OS Architecture.

Yes, I have experienced issues with 5.0.0.444 and 5.01 and reported them all !!
, Ones of the biggest interest are Auto Complete and Object Explorer, to which I
have submitted several bug reports.

From what I understand Toad-SS release 5.0.1, which if you did not know was not
a bug release but a release to complete the 5.0.xxx release. This was done so
that the development team could meet targets set by and to placate the Toad-SS
product manager Joe Faherty ( joe.faherty@quest.com ), who is absent from this
board and Toad-SS-Beta.

I personally was around as a beta tester when David Christian started working on
the Toad-SS before release 3.0 and he and I had the discussion as to why not use
the Delphi code from Oracle as the base for Toad-SS. He had some very compelling
reason, and if you really want to take-off-someone-head over that decision, you
can contact him and maybe he will enlighten you. Nevertheless, the decision was
made and the feature content of Toad-SS has been growing steadily. I know, for I
have been a part of the Beta process since 2005, with some time off for bad
behavior, (Oracle work) … So I know exactly what you are referring to when
you are frustrated with Toad-SS vs. Toad-Oracle, but MS SQL Server is not and
never will be Oracle 11, because of the vastly different architecture.

I really did enjoy your submission and I believe you have some salient points,
but you are not going to get anywhere by complaining about them !!! The best you
can do is bring up the issues, send in the issue to support@quest.com or
Toad-ss@yahoo.com and those good folks will respond back… I speak from
experience, for I am either appreciated are hated (depending on the day of the
week or month) by the folks in Toad-SS development. I am always ridding their
pack-mule as hard as I can on Toad-SS quality and performance, so as to make the
product better at ever release point, which it the whole point of the
Toadd-SS-Beta@yahoo.com and hopefully the point of all communications on this
board as well.

IN CLOSING, A vitriolic response on these boards, will not work here, The Lord
knows I have tried !!!

Hank Freeman

Senior Systems, Database/Data Warehouse Architect

hfreeman@msn.com

678.414.0090 my cell Primary

hfreeman · September 19, 2010, 7:15pm

To Andre Vergison

and

Remigio Zeballos

Yes sir you are correct Sir… YOU NEED a good computer for Toad-SS. I have been
quite successful with Toad-SS on Window Vista-64 and the Windows 7-64
professional and ultimate with 4gb and 8gb respectfully. I personally believe
anyone running 32 bit Windows XP, needs to have their head examined. To many
issue with the OS Architecture.

Yes, I have experienced issues with 5.0.0.444 and 5.01 and reported them all !!
, Ones of the biggest interest are Auto Complete and Object Explorer, to which I
have submitted several bug reports.

From what I understand Toad-SS release 5.0.1, which if you did not know was not
a bug release but a release to complete the 5.0.xxx release. This was done so
that the development team could meet targets set by and to placate the Toad-SS
product manager Joe Faherty ( joe.faherty@quest.com ), who is absent from this
board and Toad-SS-Beta.

I personally was around as a beta tester when David Christian started working on
the Toad-SS before release 3.0 and he and I had the discussion as to why not use
the Delphi code from Oracle as the base for Toad-SS. He had some very compelling
reason, and if you really want to take-off-someone-head over that decision, you
can contact him and maybe he will enlighten you. Nevertheless, the decision was
made and the feature content of Toad-SS has been growing steadily. I know, for I
have been a part of the Beta process since 2005, with some time off for bad
behavior, (Oracle work) … So I know exactly what you are referring to when
you are frustrated with Toad-SS vs. Toad-Oracle, but MS SQL Server is not and
never will be Oracle 11, because of the vastly different architecture.

I really did enjoy your submission and I believe you have some salient points,
but you are not going to get anywhere by complaining about them !!! The best you
can do is bring up the issues, send in the issue to support@quest.com or
Toad-ss@yahoo.com and those good folks will respond back… I speak from
experience, for I am either appreciated are hated (depending on the day of the
week or month) by the folks in Toad-SS development. I am always ridding their
pack-mule as hard as I can on Toad-SS quality and performance, so as to make the
product better at ever release point, which it the whole point of the
Toadd-SS-Beta@yahoo.com and hopefully the point of all communications on this
board as well.

IN CLOSING, A vitriolic response on these boards, will not work here, The Lord
knows I have tried !!!

Hank Freeman

Senior Systems, Database/Data Warehouse Architect

hfreeman@msn.com

678.414.0090 my cell Primary

kaplan.dani_609 · September 20, 2010, 12:03am

I am not sure, but it does seems that toad 5.X is running slower than 4.XX
last version.
both on initial connection, keeping a connection open (or reconnecting when
needed)
and on some daily work routine.

And I’m using a 4GB T9300 laptop on 64bit win 7.

I think there should be another minor release with speed improvements., but yet,
it’s good release.

Did you try the older version ?
Sometimes it should be good enough to keep going.
Dani

2010/9/19 Remi zeballos

Then!!!!  We all have to buy new computers to RUN TOAD for SQL Server.

Atte :
Remigio Zeballos Portugal
remi1@hotmail.com

Henrik_Johnson · September 20, 2010, 2:34am

Some answers below.

/Henrik Johnson

Quest Software

hfreeman · September 20, 2010, 9:37am

Dani,

Yes, I have run 4.6 against 5.0 and 5.0.1 getting the previously stated results
on 5.0.1.

I would support a release that has Speed improvements and hopefully
auto-complete fixes as well.

This morning the use Object Explorer for viewing Programmability objects is very
slow on 5.0.1, so I just wait…

Hank Freeman

Senior Systems, Database/Data Warehouse Architect

hfreeman@msn.com

678.414.0090 my cell Primary

hfreeman · September 20, 2010, 9:37am

Dani,

Yes, I have run 4.6 against 5.0 and 5.0.1 getting the previously stated results
on 5.0.1.

I would support a release that has Speed improvements and hopefully
auto-complete fixes as well.

This morning the use Object Explorer for viewing Programmability objects is very
slow on 5.0.1, so I just wait…

Hank Freeman

Senior Systems, Database/Data Warehouse Architect

hfreeman@msn.com

678.414.0090 my cell Primary

hfreeman · September 20, 2010, 9:41am

Good stuff Henrik !

Hank Freeman

Senior Systems, Database/Data Warehouse Architect

hfreeman@msn.com

678.414.0090 my cell Primary

hfreeman · September 20, 2010, 9:41am

Good stuff Henrik !

Hank Freeman

Senior Systems, Database/Data Warehouse Architect

hfreeman@msn.com

678.414.0090 my cell Primary

tomizechsterson_859 · October 21, 2010, 12:43pm

Interesting how nobody but the OP has mentioned the editor color customization problem… For me personally, just that feature not working makes this software completely unusable. I can change the “theme” to “darkroom”, making everything BUT the editor window nice and dark. Dude, really? Definitely not worth even a small fraction of the cost of this software without that simple functionality.

Edit: Sorry about resurrecting this thread, but I just can’t find anything on the net about the background color issue for Toad for SQL Server

Message was edited by: tomizechsterson_859

ken_406 · October 25, 2010, 8:01am

I would also like to add a vote for the ability to do the black background with
colored text. Everyone’s eyes are different and respond to colors
differently. I for one do not like black letters on white background (gives
me a headache) even though that is what is the default for pretty much
everything.

Thx.

kw