Hi Wim,
Thanks for the feedback, Wim. Also, fear not, the email version of the forums will stay up.
From: Mark Lerch [mailto:bounce-Mark_Lerch@beta.toadworld.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 10:05 AM
To: toadoraclebeta@beta.toadworld.com
Subject: RE: [Toad for Oracle - Beta Discussion Forum] Toad 12 beta does not connect to ToadWorld.com
Clarifications:
When I said “development team” I meant the Toad Oracle development team. We’re not developing ToadWorld, this work was in large part farmed out to an outside
company. A lot of time and money was spent on this effort, and to create personas and communicate Toad users’ needs to them. Lars is our only local guy who is to a great degree responsible for ToadWorld now, and going forward. I anticipate his heavy involvement
in the forums in the days ahead. (How is that for throwing you to the wolves Lars? : )
I personally like the overall design itself. I’m a big fan of lots of whitespace. I love the top navigation bar, the big “Search” input up at the top, the
airy feel to the whole page, the color scheme. I think a lot of great work has gone into this.
There are only a few minor things, in my opinion, which can be ironed out to really bring it to life and make it a useful place to spend a lot of time on.
We have to help direct their efforts.
If you consider some of our beta forum threads in the past which have gone on & on about the smallest of things in Toad, we’ve seen almost none of that going
on with ToadWorld so far. I’m looking for the tsunami to start at some point. That will be a good sign. Silence will be worrisome.
Click to show quoted text
From: Mark Lerch [mailto:bounce-Mark_Lerch@beta.toadworld.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 9:50 AM
To: toadoraclebeta@beta.toadworld.com
Subject: RE: [Toad for Oracle - Beta Discussion Forum] Toad 12 beta does not connect to ToadWorld.com
Hi Wim-
Thanks for your feedback. I, and some others on the development team, agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. The Forums design as it stands right now is
next to useless, for me at least.
There are a great many examples of superior forum designs out there which need to be examined and probably emulated. This little peek-a-boo view into the boards
isn’t going to cut it.
I’ve already begun some internal discussions about switching that over to a list view once the dust settles, where you can see a great many more posts, with
the ability to choose which columns to view (for some forums I like the number of Recs as a column).
I also don’t agree with designing the whole system around “Open questions.” Emails to the Toad boards cannot be simplified into “this is a question, this is
not a question.” It’s just far more dynamic than that, and I don’t like the idea of forcing people to identify an email as a question or not.
I understand the reasoning - they want to find ways to “tease” participation out of users. But forcing a model of “Questions/Not Questions” into a forum which
had no such construct before is, I think, a mistake.
Users feedback is absolutely critical if we don’t want a whole new design foisted on the community which is disliked. The whole purpose of the new website
is to serve you better. I’ve been concerned about the lack of feedback so far.
I had lunch with a coworker yesterday and I mentioned this. There’s a scene in the movie “A Thin Red Line” where one of the officers is telling his commander
that his soldiers are complaining about the lack of water (during the battle for Guadalcanal). His commander replied “The only time you worry about a soldier is when they stop complaining.”
So through this whole transition, as I said to him, “The only time you worry about a user is when they stop complaining.”
The silence has worried me. But I trust the feedback will start flowing more in the coming days. This is a highly configurable platform they’ve chosen. Please
hang in there during the growing pains.
Mark
Click to show quoted text
From: wimdelange_062 [mailto:bounce-wimdelange_062@beta.toadworld.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 9:35 AM
To: toadoraclebeta@beta.toadworld.com
Subject: Re: [Toad for Oracle - Beta Discussion Forum] Toad 12 beta does not connect to ToadWorld.com
Must say, that I don’t like the layout of
beta.toadworld.com . Too much whitespace and not useful information. No overview of changes (I think), hard to browse (only 5 calls on one page? ). And when I select Most Recent, the whole screen on my lattop is with text that is not relevant for me
(Toad World, Discuss, Ask Toad World, Welcome, Community forum). Nothing else? When I scroll down, I see 5 items (light green on white is not very visible.
When I click on a link to go to the item (like this one) it gets worse. Very big buttons for Overview and Forums.
The focus for forums should not be on design but should be on functionality and usefulness. So fire those designers (with a fix on Windows 8?) and get standard forum software
where I dont have to click around and use scroll buttons to see something useful.
It looks nice, but that is the Mona Lisa too.
Sorry, I’ve been years in the beta program (by using the Yahoo newsgroup) and it was very nice assisting. I also participating in other forums, so I have some experience as
a user.
But this is very annoying in usage. And if this is not changed in something more useful, I probably only spent time here when I have a real problem and will not assist other
users, because using this forums while it looks like this, is not what I want to do.
So I hope the email version will stay up, so that I can proceed with assisting the community.
In general, what is it lately that every one is thinking that this type of design should be used, while it is counter productive? Too much white space, too narrow columns,
no overview, no easy browsing…
Groetjes,
Wim
Click to show quoted text
2013/5/8 Wim de Lange wimdelange@gmail.com
I received the email, but I was worrying about the fact that it did not work in Toad itself. I’ve missed the information on
beta.toadworld.com. Thank you.
Groetjes,
Wim
2013/5/8 Mark Lerch bounce-Mark_Lerch@beta.toadworld.com
You’ve been posting to the new beta forum via email Wim. Have you been receiving via email? The forums are also fully available on
beta.toadworld.com.
Click to show quoted text
From: wimdelange_062 [mailto:bounce-wimdelange_062@beta.toadworld.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:05 AM
To: toadoraclebeta@beta.toadworld.com
Subject: [Toad for Oracle - Beta Discussion Forum] Toad 12 beta does not connect to ToadWorld.com
Not a nice idea to close the Toad Beta Yahoo Group.
Don’t know if ToadWorld is down, but because of this issue with the authenticating proxy (which Toad does not) we have here in our company it is not possible to reach toadworld
from within Toad. So I can’t use the beta forum anymore?
Groetjes,
Wim