Printing a Physical Model in 3.6.6.7 on 17x11 Landscape worked then broke.

Toad Data Modeler
1

Hi.

I have been using 3.4 for a long time and many printings, all with no printing problems. Yesterday I downloaded 3.6.6.7 and installed it, replacing my old version, and telling it to use the existing configuration, which it apparently did flawlessly.

I then started it, chose Reopen an existing Physical model, which is 17x11-inch (Landscape Tabloid), and worked with it quite a bit yesterday and today, printing several versions with no problems.

Then today I noticed that the optional Attributes font color (medium gray) makes them hard to read, so I learned about Settings >> Options and went thru the whole list, and changed a few settings, got the Attribute font darker, changed the Unit of Length to Inch, and maybe one or two other things.

I also chose File >> Page Format and set the margings better and that’s when my troubles started.

Now, I can’t get a Landscape print no matter what I do. I’ve tried undoing everything I did, even to putting the Length Unit back to mm, but no joy.

Preview, PDF Creator, and every printer I’ve ever used here all have the same problem: First I get a warning that the print is outside page margins, I say Continue, and I get an output designed for 17x11 Landscape, placed on an 11x17 Protrait “paper”.

I also get recurring errors:

  1. Invalid class typecast.

  2. Invalid pointer operation.

I’ve attached one of each of those logs.

Please advise.

Thanks for any help.

Jim

TDM error 1.txt (71.1 KB)

TDM error 2.txt (64.8 KB)

2

Hi,

thank you! Unfortunately, there was a bug. We fixed the problem and next version should work OK.

Vaclav

3

Thanks for monitoring the forum and replying.

====> Please tell me: (1) When was the bug verified? (2) When can we expect the next version?

Regards,

Jim

James R. Harris, Information Architect, MS 240
Office of Information and Technology Services
MN Dept. of Transportation
395 John Ireland Blvd., St. Paul MN 55155-1899
jim.harris@state.mn.us
Phone/Voice-Mail: 651.366.4045 Fax: 651.366.4111 Fax
Mgr.: christina.tamondong@state.mn.us 651.366.4068

 Please consider the environment before printing this email.

4

Hi,

it is hard to reproduce such problems. We found a problematic area and made changes that should fix possible problems. This was done today and the improvement will appear in next BETA version that will be released this week.
(Full tests will be done before we release commercial version.)

Regards,

Vaclav

5

Thanks.

I’ve been meaning to sign up with the Beta program anyway.

But now, I don’t find a Watch link or an RSS feed that will notify me when the next v. 3 Beta, the one that has this printing problem hopefully fixed, is released.

Please tell me:

  1. How can I sign up to get notified automatically of the v. 3 release I need ?

  2. How can I sign up to get notified of all v. 4 Betas ?

  3. Why are there no Watch or RSS feartures on the Beta Release pages, and are you interested in providing same?

Thanks again.

Jim

6

Hi Jim,

  1. No need to sign up as there isn’t going to be any other v.3 release, the next one will be already v.4 (see the next point).
  2. Once you have TDM Beta installed, you get notification message of a new release when starting the programme (provided that you are online).
  3. This current Community Jive system has got pretty old now and we’re going to make a big shift to a new system pretty soon, no later than until mid-summer (I believe it’s going to happen sooner). Therefore we don’t waste our focus on changes now.

Regards,
Lukas

7

OK, thanks.

I am back from vacation and I see TDM Beta 4.0.5.10 available.

In it:

  1. Is the printing problem (described in my original post in this thread) confirmed fixed?

  2. Are there any serious bugs (e.g. broken Reports) in 4.0.5.10 that may mean to me I should not use it for production data modeling and publishing Reports for Stakeholders? If yes, should I continue to use my Commercial Version 3.6.6.7 for modeling and Reports, then open it in the Beta for Printing but not saving?

Or do you have some other recommendations?

Thanks for all your help.

Sincerely,

Jim Harris

8

Hi Jim,

  1. We checked and repaired a couple of things for printing, which we thought may have caused your problem, but we were not able to test it as we didn’t manage to reproduce the issue you experienced. So, please, let us know if that works for you.
  2. We don’t know about any serious bugs, not in reports, neither anywhere else. Go ahead and istall the Beta, your full release will stay untouched and will be able to use both the versions.
    !!! But before you open your models in Beta, backup them first, because once you open the model and save it in the higher version of TDM (like this Beta 4.0.5.10), then it may happen you will not be able to open it back in the older full commercial version 3.6.6.7. !!!

Regards,
Lukas

Message was edited by: Lukas

9

It works fine printing to a real printer, but not to either PDF Creator (SourceForge) or Adobe Acrobat Pro PDF Maker.

Now, looking back over this thread and thinking about the testing I did, I can’t say for sure that I ever tried it directly from TDM to a real printer, I am so much in the habit of making a PDF first and printing from that PDF because our IT Project Process here requires standard-format files to be stored in the Project Folders. I’m sorry if I mis-reported that. Still, there is something about TDM that neither PDF creation software handles.

Both PDF Creator and Adobe PDF Maker work fine with every other printing task I do, many of which are 11 x 17 Landscape.

When I try to print from TDM (4 Beta or 3.6) to PDF Creator, they fail silently exactly as reported above.

When I try to print from TDM to Adobe PDF Maker, they also fail silently now as reported above, but 4 Beta failed once with an error message about missing PDF resource and asking if I wanted to reinstall (sorry, I apparently have missed my chance to capture that message).

I am beginning to wonder if there is something messed up on this workstation that is causing these behaviors, and that is why you don’t see the problem. I will try moving my entire setup to my other workstation and see what happens there, and report those results, but I can’t work on that before next week.

I have lots of software installed on this old XP box, and it is quite likely that the registry is messed up or there is some incompatible sogtware interfering with the TDM --> PDF creation process. My other workstation is newer and quite clean. For now, I recommend you ignore this issue and wait for further info.

Thanks again for your support.

Jim

10

I unexpectedly found a few minutes just now and I did the above tests with the same TDMs (Beta 4.05.10 on top of 3.6.6.7) on my “other” workstation.

On that workstation:

Unfortunately, I get exactly the same results, with this one addition:

I see a Warning window with “Printer doesn’t support the following fonts: Liberation Sans Narrow”. This is a font from LibreOffice, which is installed on my main workstation but not on this one. I don’t know (1) why this missing-font message is appearing or (2) if it could be related to the Landscape PDF-creation failure.

According to CFont Pro, there is no Liberation font on this box, and this is as expected; LibreOffice is certainly not installed.

In TDM under Settings >> Options >> Font the selection is (the default?) MS Sans Serif Regular 8. I have not re-chosen that, in case doing so may fix the problem (overwriting the Liberation Sans Narrow setting in the .txp file) and thus destroy our ability to discover the cause.

Speaking of which, do you want me to send you one of my .txp files that won’t “print” to PDF 11 x 17 Landscape? I also created a New Model in TDM 4, set the page to Tabloid Landscape, and I get the same Warning about Page Margins and the same output, but for this Print I get no Warning about not supporting Liberations Sans Narrow.

Do you have any idea why TDM may be looking for Liberations Sans Narrow in my other files?

I think this is an interesting glitch, but it may or may not be related to the Tabloid Landscape PDF generation problem.

On my main workstation, LibreOffice is installed and Liberation Sans Narrow is available but not selected as the default. Likewise in TDM 3.6 Liberation Sans Narrow is available but not selected; the Font selection is still MS Sans Serif Regular 8. When I change it to Times New Roman and save as a new Model file, then open it in TDM 4 on the “other” workstation, this new font setting to Times New Roman is not seen (it’s still MS Sans Serif Regular 8). Apparently the Liberation Sans Narrow Font setting is somehow captured invisibly in the TDM .txp file and thus was carried to my other workstation, and the Font Setting has no effect (even thought it appears it should). Does this seem possible to you? If yes, where is that font setting, please?

Have you tested TDM generating a PDF “print” (preferably with PDF Creator, since that is available to all your customers) of a model with an 11 x 17 Landscape page setup? If that works for you, I will try to help track down the possible link to this font error, but if it fails (indicating the problem is not caused by font settings), there is no significant benefit (i.e. none other than solving the not-very-bothersome font-setting mystery) in that investigation and again I have no time for non-beneficial work right now.

IHTH

Jim

11

Hi Jim,

great investigation you are running! Just for the start, send us the model which won’t print to tabloid, need to see and check all the settings there. We will let you know then of possible reasons or may give you a solution finally. Will see. Just send it , please, to modeling@quest.com.

Thanks for all your work and patience with us :slight_smile:

Regards,
Lukas and R&D Team

12

OK. I sent that separately, to the indicated email address modeling@quest.com.

I am now also noting here that my testing indicates that the issue is not only in that model file where I originally encountered the Landscape-refusal issue and it’s not only in Physical Models; it’s the same for New Models, Logical Models, and for either PDF Creator (SourceForge) or Adobe PDF on two quite different workstations, one of which has very little other software on it, and in either 3.6.6.7 or in Beta 4.0.5.10.

IHTH

Jim

13

Hi Jim,

thanks for the model. We will investigate on this after the weekend but I have one question. As you write that the issue is not bound to the one machine, but there are two more experiencing it as well, could you tell me if you don’t have the pdf printers shared and shared with the drivers? Are the three machines in LAN? Do you share any printers or their drivers between the three machines? Just trying to figure out how can it be that you have the same issue on three machines at a time…

Thank you very much, you are so patient.

Regards,
Lukas

14

No problem, Lukas; I have an “OK” workaround (but it’s not very good) to export the ERD to a PNG file and save that instead of a PDF in my Project Folder, so I can afford to be patient. I appreciate how you folks support TDM!

Here are some clarifications, linked to the numbers I inserted in your message below:

  1. I am testing TDM on a total of two computers, not three: My usual workstation, and my “other” workstation.

  2. The “PDF printers” are not real physical printers, so there is nothing to “share”. Each workstation is independent (on the same LAN but that is irrelevant) and each one has a copy of PDF Creator (from SourceForge) http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/ and a copy of Adobe Acrobat Pro which includes a Print-to-PDF feature. Each of these software packages provides its Print-to-PDF feature by installing a “virtual printer” that appears on each workstations’ list of Printers, one as “Adobe PDF” and one as “PDFCreator”. When I choose one as my “printer”, it simply writes a PDF File; it does not send it to any real, physical printer. This works perfectly for “printing” from any Windows application, including to 11 x 17-inch Landscape layout, except from TDM. Please install PDF Creator and try it; you will see how it works.

  3. Yes, but again that is irrelevant.

  4. No, and this is also irrelevant, as I am not using any real printers; see Q&A 2. This issue has nothing to do with sharing any printers or sharing PDF makers.

  5. I agree, this is a strong fact, even though it is only on two machines. I agree there must be something in common. Let’s see … what could it be? … Oh, I have an idea: Could it be that it’s TDM? Could TDM have a problem (bug) printing an 11 x 17-inch Landscape ERD to PDF Creator? Why don’t you try that too, and see if you have the same problem I do? :^)

Again, I suggest (I request) that you install PDF Creator and actually try the same thing I am doing. Would this not give us useful information, as I described in my last message in this thread, concerning whether or not you reproduce the problem when you try to “print” an 11 x 17-inch Landscape ERD to PDF Creator?

Please reply and tell me (1) whether you understand what I am describing and suggesting/requesting, (2) whether or not you agree it would be a good next step, and, if you do agree, then (3) when you think you may have your results from that test.

If you have already tried what I suggest/request, and reported the results, I have not seen it; please re-send to all interested parties.

IHTH (I Hope This Helps).

Sincerely,

Jim Harris

James R. Harris, Information Architect, MS 240
Office of Information and Technology Services
MN Dept. of Transportation
395 John Ireland Blvd., St. Paul MN 55155-1899
jim.harris@state.mn.us
Phone/Voice-Mail: 651.366.4045 Fax: 651.366.4111 Fax
Mgr.: christina.tamondong@state.mn.us 651.366.4068

 Please consider the environment before printing this email.

15

Hi Jim,

  1. ok, two machines, still too many!
  2. PDF printers, whichever, behave the same way like normal, real printers in LAN and may be shared, even you can install additional drivers for differen Windows versions to make the other workstations be able to print not having installed anything on their machines.

and

we are testing different PDF printers and one not experiencing any difficulties is PDF reDirect, working on all Windows, no problem with Tabloid 11x17 inches- http://www.exp-systems.com/.
PDF Creator struggles with TDM as well as Adobe PDF does. As we have been finishing TDM 4,not much time has left for broader investigation of this, but it’s in progress now.
For the beginning, as a workaround, download the PDF reDirect which works just fine. I have checked documentation of several PDF printers and some of them list issues/incompatibilities with various software (text and image editors…), or even with other pdf printers drivers. IHTH

Anyway, Jim, I have been writing this post for for three hours already, because I am trying and testing systems and pdf printers and doing other things… I will return to you on Monday morning and now will go on investigating… Just instal the PDF reDirect and enjoy Landscape Tabloid 11x17. Maybe uninstalling PDF_Ceator would be good, but my installation work alongside with other 5 pdf printers… the only incompatible drivers/printers are Fineprint PDF Factory and PDF995 (see Incompatibility List on http://www.exp-systems.com/PDFreDirect/PDFreDirectHelp/PDF_Help.htm#Incomp).

IHTH :slight_smile:

Regards,
Lukas

16

Excellent help; Thanks, Lukas !

I had no idea there were free Print-to_PDF software products that were even better than PDF Creator from SourceForge, but now I see !

PDF reDirect solved the problem!

Not only that, but it has some features other free products don’t.

I wish I had known about it sooner, it would have saved us both a lot of work.

I suppose it would be best to report this problem and resolution to the PDF Creator (SourceForge) team and to Adobe. Since I don’t have all the other relevant data they may want, I will leave that reporting up to you and the rest of the TDM Team, but maybe you don’t have time. Do you think a note somewhere in the TDM documentation would help TDM users at least?

Thanks again !

Regards,

Jim

17

Hi Jim,

you’re welcome. Yes, it’s a cool pdf printer and works better than most of others.
Anyway, the problem in general seems to be in the ability of the particular software to load a list of supported formats of the printer and to interpret it, print it then. I’ve tested five pdf printers including Adobe PDF Creator and PDFCreator, but only PDF reDirect was without major problems. We will go on investigating on this, but will include information on Tabloid Landscape printing problem and workaround in documentation.

Cheers,
Lukas

18

Hi,

Issue with Tabloid Landscape orientation printing is caused by ANSI paper size specification and its implementation.

If you look into it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size), you will find that Tabloid is ANSI B Tabloid specification with 11x17" size and Portrait orientation, whereas Landscape orientation is ANSI B Ledger specification of 17x11"size.

Some printers or software may allow to change Tabloid orientation to landscape, but Toad Data Modeler keeps with ANSI specification of paper size. Therefore, if you want to print in “Tabloid Landscape” format, select Ledger paper size, no matter what orientation you select, because it’s always landscape.

Regards,
Lukas